Singer-songwriter James McMurtry visited Little Rock NPR station KUAR-FM 89.1 on July 20, 2010 before performing that night at Juanita’s Cantina Ballroom. He had long been a favorite of mine and it was a joy talking with him on the air and having him perform a couple of songs live in the studio.
James McMurtry performing at the White Water Tavern in Little Rock on Dec. 10, 2022. Photo: Michael Hibblen
It can be intimidating asking questions to a performer of his caliber while trying to delve into the inspirations of iconic songs like “Choctaw Bingo.” But he couldn’t have been more pleasant. I blew out the last half-hour of NPR’s All Things Considered to talk with McMurtry beginning at 6:06 p.m.
It’s amazing the sound he’s able to get with just him and his 12-string guitar. The promotions person who set up the interview asked if KUAR used Electrovoice RE20 microphones, which we did. If not, McMurtry had one he could use. I assume that’s part of how he gets the perfect mix between his voice and guitar while only using one mic at radio stations.
While the interview has been on KUAR’s website since being aired, I went back to the uncompressed digital file to provide it here in as high a quality as possible. I’ve also prepared a full transcript of our conversation.
AUDIO: Interviewing James McMurtry on KUAR-FM 89.1 in Little Rock before a show that night.
INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT:
Michael Hibblen: Singer-songwriter James McMurtry is in Little Rock for a show tonight at Juanita’s. He’s had a string of really solid albums over the last many years with his own style of Americana or alternative country. Stephen King called him “the truest, fiercest songwriter of his generation.” He’s been one of my favorites for several years now with often bleak, politically charged songs. I am happy to have him in the studio with me. Thanks for joining me today.
James McMurtry: Good to be here, Michael.
So the last time I saw you, you came through town, you were playing with the Drive-By Truckers at the Rev Room. And you come through Little Rock pretty regularly.
Yeah, every year or so.
Do you have any connection here…
No, just mostly Juanita’s. I guess we played the Rev Room last time, that was a lot of fun.
Well, great. You opened that show saying something to the effect of if you’re not depressed now, you will be. Your material, it’s certainly not light material. A lot of people living on the fringes, drug addiction, people who are really down and out. One song on your last album was about incest, the haunting “Fire Line Road.”
Yeah, it’s also about meth addiction. I don’t know, I see a lot of that, and not many people seem to be writing about it, certainly not in Nashville. So it just kind of worked its way into my songs, really.
And even the more upbeat, fun songs are still pretty dark.
Yeah, pretty dark. It’s just easier to write dark, I think. I don’t know. I need to learn to write light, but it takes some effort.
Well your father wrote about some pretty dark characters too. A lot of folks listening may not realize you’re the son of Pulitzer Prize-winning author Larry McMurtry. And I heard a great, long segment with your dad on NPR’s All Things Considered a few weeks ago, and that was extremely interesting. What was his influence like on you for being a songwriter?
Well, he always had a lot of records around the house for me to listen to. So I grew up — I listened to a lot of Johnny Cash and Roy Acuff when I was growing up. Later on, Kris Kristofferson, somebody turned me on to him. [He] was really the first one that I identified as a songwriter. You know, I hadn’t thought about where songs came from until about then.
Well, tell you what, if you want to go ahead and perform a song here.
Sure. This is one of my more lighter, upbeat numbers.
(James McMurtry performs “Down Across the Delaware” live in the studio.)
James McMurtry joining us in the studio here at KUAR there performing “Down Across the Delaware.” He’ll be playing tonight at Juanita’s. What’s that song about?
It’s basically a couple of friends of mine that got addicted to New York City. They’d go up there until they ran out of money, and then they’d go back to Virginia and wherever.
The first album I heard from you was the first one, “Too Long in the Wasteland.” Then, uh, went for a few years, and then I guess it started again with “Can’t Make It Here Anymore.”
That’s quite a few years.
Yeah. With “Can’t Make It Here Anymore,” that was really where you made a little bit of a turn to more politically observant songs and the first of a string of several songs where you took pretty pointed criticism at the Bush administration.
Not necessarily. I actually started “We Can’t Make It Here” during the Clinton years. A lot of the things that the narrator in that song complains about really took wing under Clinton. I was certainly no fan of Bush either, but it’s not specifically an anti-Bush song. You know, I saw, I’d been touring a lot in the northeast, and a lot of those old mill towns are just cratered because all the — the main theme in that song is outsourcing and what that does to communities. And so yeah, that really struck a nerve with a lot of people there.
And a lot of towns like that in Arkansas.
And, you know, Bush did nothing to curb that after he got in because his buddies were getting just as rich as Clinton’s were.
Politically, what do you think? Today — the Obama administration — any improvement?
He inherited a couple of pretty big messes. Afghanistan, mainly, and the economy. I don’t know, he seems to be trying. I’m not happy with his response to the oil spill, but historically, no U.S. president since Teddy Roosevelt ever lifted a finger against big oil — not one. And certainly not the older George Bush when the [Exxon] Valdez hit the rocks [in Alaska in 1989], and that was a surface spill. You know, they had booms, they could have circled that thing in a matter of hours if the Coast Guard had been brought in — it wasn’t. So I have to wonder, did the elder George not want to embarrass his buddies at Exxon, or were we already living in a world where multinational corporations are more powerful than the government, which was certainly the case now [with the Deepwater Horizon oil platform explosion in 2010 which is estimated to have leaked nearly 5 million barrels of oil]. You hear [Obama’s selected National Incident Commander] Thad Allen saying, well, we’ll let them keep the cap on the well because we’ve asked them to monitor for vents in the sea floor, this sort of thing. No, you don’t ask them, you tell them, you know, this is the way it’s supposed to work. You’re supposed to be able to tell them not to, but I don’t know that they can. You know that’s something we need to change. And I don’t think one administration is going to change that. It’s going to take a lot of us working a long time.
What’s the process for you when you write songs, especially political songs when you do make observations.
Well, the political songs are tricky if I want to make my own point, because as a songwriter, I tend to want to let the song have its own head and go where it wants to go, and it might not express my opinion. I got lucky with “We Can’t Make It Here,” but if you try to force a song to make a point, you’re liable to write a sermon instead of a song. It might be a good sermon. I’d rather have a song, you know. I got lucky, as I said, with that one.
One of my favorite songs was “Choctaw Bingo”
Oh yeah?
A great eight-and-a-half-minute long…
Is this a “Choctaw Bingo”-friendly station?
Yeah.
You’re not worried that the FCC will come down hard on you?
I hope not.
We’ll maybe I’ll do that one. I’m in tune for it.
Alright.
I wrote this song as an exercise really because for a while, it seemed like every one of our tours either started or ended on Highway 69 in northeast Oklahoma. And we never played in Oklahoma at that time, but we were always driving through Muskogee and McAlester in that way. And there was all this weird stuff along the road, and I tried to put it all in one song just to see if I could do it. And within a year after I finished the song, that stuff started disappearing. Choctaw Bingo morphed into Choctaw Gaming Center, which is now Choctaw Casino, and it covers about six acres or more. And the gun shop in Tushka, Oklahoma’s gone. And the lingerie store moved to Joplin, Missouri, but there’s more weirdness coming up. There may be new verses later. Anyway.
(James McMurtry performs “Choctaw Bingo” live in the KUAR studio.)
“Choctaw Bingo” from James McMurtry, amazing.
Well thank you.
I know one show I was at, there were people hollering out for that one. Is that always one of the big ones?
They do now. It’s kind of a kind of a cartoon but it’s fun.
And you mentioned the places were at one time real, [what about] the characters in there, Uncle Slayton, all the others.
I don’t know any Uncle Slayton, but it’s weird, life does imitate art. One time I had a girl come up to a show in Auston, showed us her driver’s license and it said Slayton. And she said, I got an Uncle Slayton. Well I asked does he make moonshine and she said yeah, he does make moonshine. And I said, well does he cook speed? She said no, but some of my other relatives do and I get it. I hope she’s still got her looks.
Well, you’re playing tonight at Juanita’s at 9:00. Is this part of a tour for you?
Yeah, we’re just finishing up. We’ve been up to Chicago and Detroit, Cleveland, Toronto, down through Pittsburgh and then back down through Tennessee.
And what’s happening with you musically, what’s next for you? Your most recent release was the “Live in Europe.”
Yeah, it came out in October and we’re still working that one.
And I actually bought a copy of the vinyl LP at your last show with the DVD inside.
Good, yeah.
That was the first new album I’ve bought in a long time.
Really? Yeah, they’re doing a lot of vinyl these days. I think it’s a good thing.
When can we expect a new album from you?
I don’t know. They come out whenever they do.
Whenever the material’s there and whenever you feel ready?
Well, sometimes, even then — I had one record, my second record got shelved for two years. Of course, you know, I had a major label then, they can afford to put stuff on the shelf. So, I don’t know, maybe next spring.
Great. Anything else worth adding?
Uh, no, just be careful.
Well, thanks a lot for coming by. It’s really been a treat.
Thank you.
James McMurtry joining us here in the studio on FM 89.
McMurtry’s performance that night at Juanita’s was amazing, as his shows always are. The following year, the beloved music venue and restaurant would move from its home since being founded in 1986 by Mark Abernathy at South Main and 13th Street. Under new ownership, Juanita’s moved to Little Rock’s entertainment district the River Market, but only survived four years before shutting down on Dec. 20, 2015 amid financial difficulties.
In subsequent tours while passing through Little Rock, McMurtry would often perform at the White Water Tavern, which seemed perfect for him. I continue seeing him play live every chance I get as his music only gets better with age.
